Monday, May 4, 2009

Why do you love Thai boys? - the criticism

With the publicity comes the disagreement, especially since I wrote about a topic as sticky as Thai boys. For most people reading this blog probably admire Thai boys. However, I have been surprised as most people actually agreed with my points.

Let me respond and clarify.

First of all big thanks to fellow bloggers Kawadjan and Bkkdreamer for taking up this topic and supporting my point.

Kawadjan writes in his usual colourful way:

"While it's very tempting to add my views on the discussion, for now I'd keep my opinions on the matter to my self coz I'm obviously not as courageous as BoB. Let's put it this way, both posts made me nod my head several times until I nearly broke my frail neck."

Bkkdreamer who has lived with his Thai boyfriend for several years and says about him:
"At times, he has been all of the above. It depends on when you ask me. " and: "Fine, I say: You try living with one!"

For the criticism, an anonymous comment (by the way why are critiques always anonymous?):

"What little benefit is gained by sticking people in a box and labelling them though I am sure it keeps you self satisfied. Nothing more worthless than a stereotype. How can you hope to find a connection with your long list of requirements /pre requistes. The crimes you accuse the locals of are common in every country. Shitty sex,one night stands, liars & cheaters, people afraid of commitment where is this wonderful place where these things don't exist? And the fairytale of the one true love now you really sound like a Thai BOY"

Another anonymous commentator on bkkdreamer's blog adds:

All of this 'Thai guys are this way, Thai guys are that way' kind of complaint is usually a front foreigners put up to avoid responsibility for the type of guys they choose to be with. There is a certain Thainess to Thai guys- of course- but there is a wide range of levels of age, maturity, employment, responsibility, affection, skill in lovemaking, etc.If you find there is a pattern to your choices, the place to look for the pattern is in yourself, not 'Thai culture.'

Unsurprisingly, I was criticised for stereotyping. Yes, claiming that a whole country is like this or like that is of course a bit daunting and as a matter of fact, there are always exceptions to the rule.

In this case however I stand by my point and believe the (good) exceptions are few.

How can you hope to find a connection with your long list of requirements /pre requistes, you say.

Well, if I want to commit to someone, he better be compatible with me. Why would you NOT need a long list of requirements?

If you have good sex with someone but the rest doesnt work, that's called a f*ckbuddy. If you get on really well with someone and perhaps even like each other, yet there is no commitment, you are gig.

"a front foreigners put up to avoid responsibility for the type of guys they choose to be with"

really? who is stereotyping here? Think again, mister anonymous, I am not some sad old queen hopping from Silom to Pattaya and back to the gogo-bars of Surawong in the hope of finding my "true love".

"Different levels of age, maturity, employment, responsibility, affection"?

All done, from 22 to 32, mostly from Bangkok, from executives in big businesses, to teachers, to office workers to students. I do not know how to be more broad...

Also, I have seen a number of Thais complaining about the exact same issues.

Yes, you may actually not agree with what I wrote because your own taste may be different. I wrote from a subjective point of view, about the troubles of a farang-Thai relationship in my case.

The pattern IS in Thai culture. Yet I am not meaning to judge Thai people. They just have a different way of conducting relationships, which I believe is not compatible with mine.

Also, it's not their fault they do not speak English well. It's mostly our fault that we do not try to speak their language. I am trying, but it's not very easy.

I do believe these relationships are possible, but you need to bring:

TOLERANCE

read bkkdreamer's blog, and you know what is meant here. Thais have a totally different relationship to things such as money for example.

They will also happily take a phone call during sex, possibly even from their boyfriend, and then go on having sex after the call.

They can also ask you to be their boyfriend, only to walk away totally disinterested a few days later because they have probably found a "toy" which is more fun to play with. etc....

If you can tolerate their ways and love, the attraction or the good sex is stronger than the annoyances, go ahead...

10 comments:

Leon Koh said...

interesting account of thai boys..

BB said...

thank you very much leon. do you agree?

Was Once said...

Your points are well made and I am in agreement. But with all negatives, the positives shine through and after eights years with a Thai partner he has been consistent and loving which is why it lasted.

BB said...

great! then you met one of the gems. come to think of it, i do know about 2 or 3 gems too. but it never worked out because you dont just fall in love like that. i wonder if it is any different in other countries as i have never really dated in other countries. (except in a small countrytown in new zealand)

TAO said...

Okay, BB, lets take a step back and ask, "what's the big deal about relationships?"

Since that is exactly what you claim you are looking for and where Thai's fall short in, lets step back and examine the big deal about relationships.

If you look at a relationship you realize that you are living side by side someone else, they have their lives and you have yours.

Its not 24/7 of warm and fuzzy feelings or great sex. It has moments of bonding behavior but outside of that its just two people living in close proximity to each other.

Look at the USA, divorce rate of 50% and number of married people who admit to having affairs while married is over 63%.

Those are the extremes, but I wonder what the statistics would be for things like, "Are you happy in your relationship?"

So, Thai's have alot of bad qualities....I would want to know how much of these bad qualities are derived from experience with Thais in Bangkok? How much is derived from experience with Thai's in particular sections of Bangkok?

How many guys move to Bangkok looking for sex and then bemoan the fact that they cannot establish relationships? Didn't go there looking for relationships did you?

Personally, I like the concept of "Sanuk" and "Mei Phen Rai" and I have been in a relationship for 25 years but I have also had an affair with a Cambodian boy for 10 years and it was GREAT! But then one day his biological clock said it was time to get married and he did and it broke my heart...and as I always say, "You can take the boy out of the rice paddies but you cannot take the rice paddies out of the boy..."

He asked me to be his best man at his wedding planning that that would be the last time we saw each other and or talked to each other.

So, enjoy all the people that come into your life. Take them as they are and enjoy the moments because life is nothing but an acculmulation of moments....

So, did I live up to my reputation? :)

BB said...

TAO. I must say...again: I did not comment on dating in america or africa or mongolia, because I just dont know. I talk about Bangkok, because I know it. the phrase: the worst place to date is provocative and baseless of course.

Now lets sit back and take a look what I am saying again. I said for ME, (do you understand? ME) Bangkok has been disappointing.

That has something to do with MY expectations and MY values. I may be one of the few left who tick with good old conservative rules.

I could NEVER have a ten year affair, why would I need that? I could not look into my bf's eyes and either lie to him or cheat on him and tell him. The last time I cheated on someone, I broke up with him the next week, because I felt GUILTY.

I would do the same again possibly.

Thais do not have BAD qualities. It's just that sadly, their qualities do not correspond with mine. I cant just have sanuk and mai pen rai.

I came to bangkok to STUDY. I got a grant to study here. I knew two Thai people before I came here (my professor and a co-student) and I had never been interested in this country before I set foot on Bangkok soil. So: no, I didnt come here for sex.

particular sections of bangkok? I had been to DJ station ONE time and never to any sauna, if you mean THESE areas.

and by the way, if I werent happy in my relationship, I would end it tomorrow.

Sorry if I come off as pissed off, but I can not stand the allegation of "oh bangkokbitch dont moan you came here to f"ck anyway and you met the wrong kind of guys in Silom etc" anymore. It's not true.

TAO said...

Sorry I touched a raw nerve BoB.

Let me add, that one should never say, "NEVER" because life has a very strange way of coming back to haunt you before you know it.

I was your age once and I said the same thing as you have and I believe as you do that I had values and principles.

You went to study in Thailand, so you are getting what you want....you didn't go there looking for a relationship so you were not disappointed.

Thailand is what Thailand is and Thai's are what Thai's are. To expect anything more from them would be unrealistic.

When you spend 10 years committed to a relationship where your life partner has attempted suicide and you have a company to run, a home to keep up, and a partner to nurse all on your own, with no assistance from family or friends you sometimes get lonely and look outside the relationship for support. Without the affair I would not have been able to nurse my partner back to health again and it appears that he is starting to turn the corner.

I don't judge people anymore but rather just accept them as they are and expect nothing more than what they can offer from them. Its not my standards they have to achieve but it is their own.

Relationships are never a 50/50 proposition....sometimes its never even close and your values and principles may trap you rather than set you apart

BB said...

tao, my boyfriend too was in deep depression, similar to yours perhaps. we were also just the two of us, half a world away from our parents and family.
now the game has changed and i am the hysterical bitch whereas he's matured and gives me security. investment is worth it sometimes...even investing in humans:))

in good spirits:)
BB

alone in london said...

hello from a so-called "Thai boy"[I use quote because I don't really consider myself as one but since I was born and raised in Thailand I must be lol]. I read your post and find it really interesting,I've never been in a real relationship before so I'm kind of studying. I think that many of what people are saying can be apply to me. And I guess most can be apply to the majority of the "Thai boys".

Regarding BB's expectations and values, I'm sure we all have a list of thing we want in a partner like you do but with my little life experience I had, I think you can't really stick to the what you planned all the time.[like most things in life]

And to TAO, to say that
"Thailand is what Thailand is and Thai's are what Thai's are. To expect anything more from them would be unrealistic." I think that is not true, society changes like people, which have different needs so they make different expectations. Plus you're generalising all Thais into one category. I'm sure If BB look hard enough[with some luck] he will be able to find a Thai guy who fits his criteria but then would you still consider that person a "Thai boy"?

I just found this blog and it's quite late[my time zone] so I haven't got a chance to read the blog properly If my reply have already been said I do apologise.

Cheers

BB said...

mister "alone in london"

very nice to hear from a Thai person. I am very sure that most readers of this blog are thailand-interested foreigners in America and Europe and expats in Thailand, KL, Singapore and HKG. So it's great to hear from you.

You must first check where I use "thai boy"...you might find a big portion of sarcasm...

I think I cant plan a relationship, but I can decide whether I want to devote a lot of attention, time and compassion to a person or not. A relationship is like work sometimes, and if you hate your work, it's not worth it:)

I hope you find some time to read more - and like it:)

BB